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Fliers charging individuals

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  • Fliers charging individuals

    An interesting rules issue came up at the UK masters last weekend. It involved a Tortured Souls troop (red with wings) charging a mounted standard bearer behind a horde (blue). Picture 1 gives the outline of the situation. The Tortured Souls could see the standard bearer and had the range for the charge.





    The move in question involved pivoting and flying over the horde to the flank of the standard bearer (Picture 2) and then pivoting and making contact with the corner of the standard bearer (Picture 3). As an individual, the standard bearer has to align with (not turn to face) the charging unit but the charging unit is now in the flank of the standard bearer and it was not clear whether this meant that the standard bearer should align with its flank to the charging unit or its front. At the time, the Rules Committee ruled against the charge but I understand that this decision has been reviewed subsequently.

    It would be helpful if we could have a definitive ruling from the rules committee on this situation.

    Two other issues that might arise could also be addresses at the same time. In Picture 4, an individual on a square base is butted tightly up to the rear of the horde. The only way that the flying unit can charge will involve hitting the entire flank of the individual at the same time as the front corner. Theoretically, the charging unit has made contact with the front of the individual by touching the front corner but at this stage it is a corner to corner charge unless and until the individual has to align by turning its front face to the charger.



    In Picture 5, if the mounted individual has to pivot and turn its flank to the charging unit to align, it will end its pivot inside the horde. Is this allowed and is the mounted individual required to be picked up and aligned?

    Food for thought.

  • #2
    I guess there is almost no point in discussing, and leave it to the RC to decide.
    But if it were up to me, I'd argue that yes, the first example is allowed because you are partly in the front facing of the Indie, and it would turn to face the chargers with its front. (The only argument against it would be that "but the Indie is not able to close the door... but we dont close the door anymore, do we? which opens up for a "pick up and place" for the charged Indie in the same way that you would pick up and place a charger)

    Examples 4 and 5: when you make contact with those, you are only in the flank, not even touching the front corner. The "final position" in the diagram would not be a correct one I think, as it looks like the charger has aligned to the Indie and not the other way around.

    So it seems the morale is to keep your Indies very close to its screen if you want to keep them protected; if the charger have just 1mm sticking over the front corner it is most likely allowed (like in the first example), and you could even argue that if just touching the corner it might also be allowed. The only time it's definitely not allowed is when not even touching the corner, and 100% in the wrong facing.
    Last edited by Frederique; 31-01-2018, 11:48 AM.

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    • #3
      Because in 4 and 5 the flyers would still come in this angle, right?


      1.png

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      • #4
        So long as you contact the facing you are charging, then it's valid. Corners are considered to be that facing, though part of me feels like leader point gets factored in somewhere too (though that might just be for corner surge-charges?), but otherwise you have contacted the appropriate facing. Although looking at the first example again, it appears as though the fliers pivot more than 90, though that's likely just me being pedantic and doesn't really change the intent of the example.

        Examples number 4 and 5 are both illegal because you are not charging/contacting the appropriate facing.

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        • #5
          Good point about the angle of attack. In some circumstances, if the flier is angled at the start of its charge, it could fly over the horde and double pivot to be exactly in line with the back of the horde before then contacting the individual and hitting the front corner.

          Last edited by Koshtra Belorn; 31-01-2018, 12:54 PM.

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          • #6
            As Fred says, in the 2nd example the flyer would contact the flank of the individual, not one of the front corners, so wouldn't be able to charge

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            • #7
              So glad the RC shoot this down. All it's going to do, is bring more heat & anger directed against flyers & nimble. Plus make judges come over to the table during tournaments.
              Last edited by Desert Fox; 31-01-2018, 01:04 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Koshtra Belorn View Post
                Good point about the angle of attack. In some circumstances, if the flier is angled at the start of its charge, it could fly over the horde and double pivot to be exactly in line with the back of the horde before then contacting the individual and hitting the front corner.

                This is true but can be countered by having the individual pivoted 0.1 degrees clockwise, so the first corner hit is the rear.

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                • #9
                  That looks like bogus play to me, contact must be made with the facing in your front arc, nothing in the individuals rule says they don't have facings, merely that their facings don't give combat bonuses.

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                  • #10
                    Contacting a corner is valid contact for a charge

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Daedle View Post

                      This is true but can be countered by having the individual pivoted 0.1 degrees clockwise, so the first corner hit is the rear.
                      Isn't that also contacting the flank of what should be a front charge though?

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                      • #12
                        It doesn't say you can't also be contacting another facing, just that you ave to be contacting the facing that you're charging, and a corner is a part of that facing (otherwise if you rule that corner isn't sufficient then that opens an incredible can of worms that breaks the game).

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                        • #13
                          For me the charge is legal due to the FAQ as the aligning no longer requires "closing the door". In the second example the charge is not legal (as it was already pointed out) since the two pivots are not sufficient to touch the front corner. However, if the charging unit was positioned slightly more to the right when the charge is declared the charge would be legal too. The only way to escape the charge would be to place the individual in a way that it is not aligned with the friendly unit in front of it, i.e. the front of the individual would have to be at a small angle with the back facing of the unit in front of the individual.

                          EDIT: After posting I see practically everything was already said. In particular, before writing my response I missed the line Daedle put below his figure on rotating the individual by a fractional angle. That's exactly what I mean by not aligning the individual with the back of the friendly unit.
                          Last edited by AlQuds; 31-01-2018, 02:16 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Seems alright that the Indies are not 100% safe in all situations. Some times it would feel good to hunt the buggers down.

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                            • #15


                              Also if that front corner of the individual mode can be targeted like that? Then any unit front corner in the game can be targeted the same way. (correct?) Say it's not an individual but a troop, regiment, horde, monster or war machine. (can you do the same thing?)
                              Last edited by Desert Fox; 31-01-2018, 03:10 PM.

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