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  • Dwarven throwing mastiffs question

    so these have a range of 12" and are a "shooting" or ranged attack so what I don't understand is...

    Scenario,

    enemy units are outside 12", and they charge in against some shield breakers, (being cavalry that can go more than 12")
    one round of combat ensues and wounds are taken by the shield breakers but they remain, un-wavered and not affected

    now its the dwarves go, can they use their ranged attack while in contact? or must they make a choice between stand and "shoot" and melee, or can they do both as its a one use attack?
    but they are also disordered so can't shoot right?

    Little confused any help appreciated.


  • #2
    you can't shoot if you have charged or countercharged, equally you cannot shoot when you are disordered.
    mastiffs are a shooting attack, regardless of how many uses you get.


    so, no, you can't shoot and charge in the same round, unless you happen to be shambling and are surged into combat.

    If you were unhurt by the attack, ie had taken no wounds, you would then have the option to shoot or charge.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by The_Bag View Post
      you can't shoot if you have charged or countercharged, equally you cannot shoot when you are disordered.
      mastiffs are a shooting attack, regardless of how many uses you get.


      so, no, you can't shoot and charge in the same round, unless you happen to be shambling and are surged into combat.

      If you were unhurt by the attack, ie had taken no wounds, you would then have the option to shoot or charge.
      Thanks, I thought as much

      Comment


      • #4
        On a slight tangent, I've always found it thematically unsatisfying that the dogs do nothing in melee - that they are only a ranged attack but somehow disappear if you are charged or in combat and they have not been used yet.

        I would love to see them turned into a one use ranged _or_ melee attack in the future, so that units with dogs that don't fire them off before melee can get one use out of them in melee. I'd be fine with paying 10 more points for that. There are too many situations where the dogs, while a really fun idea, end up never actually used due to the speed of opposing units.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Phasestar View Post
          On a slight tangent, I've always found it thematically unsatisfying that the dogs do nothing in melee - that they are only a ranged attack but somehow disappear if you are charged or in combat and they have not been used yet.

          I would love to see them turned into a one use ranged _or_ melee attack in the future, so that units with dogs that don't fire them off before melee can get one use out of them in melee. I'd be fine with paying 10 more points for that. There are too many situations where the dogs, while a really fun idea, end up never actually used due to the speed of opposing units.
          but I suppose that's why they're 10 points, against the undead they can do some decent damage and even destroy a troop of skel / ghoul etc . of course the right tactics are needed but its some very cheap wounds if you pull it off.

          equally they're a waste of points if you just sit back and let cavalry charge you as the example I gave

          I like these subtle tactics within KOW rather than just pick the meta army, peoples decisions can actually sway the battle.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kenneth mcgrew View Post
            but I suppose that's why they're 10 points, against the undead they can do some decent damage and even destroy a troop of skel / ghoul etc .
            Not ghouls, they don't Shamble. Only Shambling units get the bonus.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by pinkymadigan View Post

              Not ghouls, they don't Shamble. Only Shambling units get the bonus.
              indeed my error

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kenneth mcgrew View Post
                but I suppose that's why they're 10 points, against the undead they can do some decent damage and even destroy a troop of skel / ghoul etc . of course the right tactics are needed but its some very cheap wounds if you pull it off.

                equally they're a waste of points if you just sit back and let cavalry charge you as the example I gave

                I like these subtle tactics within KOW rather than just pick the meta army, peoples decisions can actually sway the battle.
                I've tried them and I understand how they are meant to work. I also think they are almost worth the 10 points, and certainly worth it against Undead. However, they are really designed to counter Speed 5 and 6 infantry. These days, I see a lot more Speed 7+ units and against a fast enemy you often don't get much or any use from the dogs. My suggestion is that thematically, if the war mastiffs are with the unit, why not let them also fight in melee for one round. It would make the upgrade less situational (even if more expensive) and would be more fun IMHO.

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                • #9
                  The mastiffs are actually range 16 (because you can move and shoot without any penalty) so you should be able to shoot even speed 8 cavalry before they get to charge you.

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                  • #10
                    Very true, I'm sorry I overlooked that in my post. Part of that is just me typing quickly, but it does also become a factor when you don't necessary want to move a unit with dogs out of position in a line to "take a shot". It's very easy with Speed 4 to let faster units get around you if you are not careful and the dogs alone are not worth the risk of exposing a flank in most cases.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pikkoro View Post
                      The mastiffs are actually range 16 (because you can move and shoot without any penalty) so you should be able to shoot even speed 8 cavalry before they get to charge you.
                      The above will the come down to specific placement - your leader point will have to be within 16 of the closest bit of the cav unit without his leader being with 16 of any part of your unit.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Phasestar View Post
                        On a slight tangent, I've always found it thematically unsatisfying that the dogs do nothing in melee - that they are only a ranged attack but somehow disappear if you are charged or in combat and they have not been used yet.

                        I would love to see them turned into a one use ranged _or_ melee attack in the future, so that units with dogs that don't fire them off before melee can get one use out of them in melee. I'd be fine with paying 10 more points for that. There are too many situations where the dogs, while a really fun idea, end up never actually used due to the speed of opposing units.
                        On a further tangent - the elven and nature pets are significantly worse and just aren't used. Part of that is the fact they are only for heroes, most of whom can take a more permanent ranged attack for the same cost. These should be looked at the same time (if not earlier).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Agreed, I think allowing them a one shot contribution in melee would also be helpful.

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