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What do you want from KoW Vanguard?

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  • What do you want from KoW Vanguard?

    So it's fairly common knowledge now that Mantic plan to release a KoW skirmish game called Vanguard. There isn't really much information about it at present so I thought it could be interesting to see what sort of things people are hoping for.

    For example, do you want it to be in depth and/or focused on roleplay or do you prefer something quick and simple? Roughly how many figures per side would you want?

    Also, as a bonus, are there any ideas you have for a warband that you might not be able to do as a full army?

  • #2
    Personally, I direly miss Mordheim. If they could just... recreate that game, but in Mantica, I would love them forever for it. So like 40/60 split between roaming warband-scale RPG and skirmish tabeltop wargame would be swell.

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    • #3
      I have played a number of skirmish games, and I find the ones where you can have as much as 20 models per side got a bit clumsy - particularly in games like "In Her Majesty's name" where you take turns at activating a single model. Necromunda was always my favourite, but you could advance you gang very fast and at the upper end it was extremely hard to beat with a lower gang. So some roleplay, missions and low level advances would be good, I think. Possibly no more than 12 models per gang (exceptions for goblins and rats, whose models may be a little weaker?)

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      • #4
        The guess what I would like most from Vanguard is lots of options, the fun of zooming into Skirmish is having individual models with allot of character (and rules to express those differences). I think old school Killteam actually did this really well “Hey- pick some special rules and model your dudes to fit those special rules” – That guardsmen has Furious Charge? Give him a ton of big ass combat knives and a sword in his off hand! That one has feel no pain? Give him an eye-patch and a bionic arm and leg. Yeaah!

        I guess what I’m saying is I want some rules supported excuses to do some extra modeling and conversion work, just little custom upgrades and/or equipment options that I can model for.


        I agree with Peter on the general model count, if you want more then a few you should be fielding allot of super cheap rats/zombies/gobbos.
        Last edited by Carcearion; 10-07-2017, 04:44 PM.

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        • #5
          If I wanted to play a skirmish game, I would be playing one of the numerous other ones out there (which vary in complexity and quality). Mantic is rather specifically filling a rank and file niche for me and if I want to play a small model count game with them, they already have a pretty good dungeon crawler with several expansions out there. It also flies in the face of the diorama thing I like to do with my armies.

          That being said, if they manage to make it a balanced Mordheim/Frostgrave type experience that works as an introductory product for newer plays, its a good move from them. They can always turn a profit on their books and its a chance to start filling out the lore of their world a little more.

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          • #6
            well everyones talking rules wise, honestly i want to see mantic make hard plastic fantasy terrain!
            If only I could be so grossly incandescent

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kharegim View Post
              well everyones talking rules wise, honestly i want to see mantic make hard plastic fantasy terrain!
              They are! but I'm sorry to tell you that you missed the kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...antasy-terrain

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              • #8
                The only usable terrain from that kickstarter would be hedges/fences, low walls and minor stuff.

                A fantasy skirmish game would need medieval style buildings, both intact or ruined, and maybe supplemented with monuments, woods, canals or marshes.

                Maybe it can be built like the Deadzone terrain, but of course for fantasy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dimonju View Post
                  The only usable terrain from that kickstarter would be hedges/fences, low walls and minor stuff.

                  A fantasy skirmish game would need medieval style buildings, both intact or ruined, and maybe supplemented with monuments, woods, canals or marshes.

                  Maybe it can be built like the Deadzone terrain, but of course for fantasy.
                  I disagree on several levels. Don't disregard the camp site, baggage train, dungeon debris, and the temple expansion (I mean I think arguments could be made for an awful lot of other things to – the interior stuff like book shelves/mining carts/torture chamber stuff could really flesh out having interior spaces on the board with plenty to interact with).

                  Although I certainly agree we need buildings, ruins, and woods- but I think there is allot of use here from the TerrainCrate (which was specifically launched in anticipation of Vanguard if I recall)- the terrain in this release might also be indicative of the kind of stuff they have in mind for Vanguard, we might be expected to be fighting on boards with interactive dungeon like interior spaces like in skirmish games such as Songs of Blades And Heroes as opposed to low interaction ruined cityscapes in the vein of Frostgrave.

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                  • #10
                    I'd love for the game to be campaign-driven, with a narrative focus that illumines some neglected aspects of the setting. Is there a cloak-and-dagger side of Mantica? Are there secret societies, cults, and mystic orders? Minor but flavorful factions that aren't big enough to field their own armies? Are there unique environments that don't see play in normal battles - ice shelves with crevasses and avalanches, fortifications atop floating rocks, ruins of lost civilizations surrounded by carnivorous plants? Basically, I think a skirmish game is a great opportunity for flavor-driven gaming that isn't usually available to rank-and-flank massed wargames.

                    The other thing that's really important to me is that Vanguard and regular KoW connect in some way, that success in one gives a tangible but balanced benefit in the other (access to troop types, influence on terrain placement, extra points, a unique magic item, deployment advantage, choice of scenario objective, etc.).

                    If that's the case, I would love for it to be a fast system that can be played in around 45-60 minutes, so it can be a warm-up for a proper game of KoW.

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                    • #11
                      From what has been said on podcasts, Vanguard is not Mordheimish. It is more open space combat. Literally the vanguard of the armies clashing. I imagine urban play is an option, but it will be less fiddly than Mordheim. Hopefully.

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                      • #12
                        I'm dying for a decent Mordheimish skirmish game... for my friends that find KoW too daunting (they don't want paint an entire army). I'd like to see warbands stay around 12-15 max, with a not too complicated rule set. When might we see Vanguard hit the tables?

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                        • #13
                          I think it's due sometime next year. Not sure if there's gonna be a kickstarter. I'm looking forward to the new plastic kits they are gonna push out with vanguard that we can use for KOW. Hope the rules are good so that it can be the perfect gateway game to get people interested in KOW.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by snuh View Post
                            I'd love for the game to be campaign-driven, with a narrative focus that illumines some neglected aspects of the setting. Is there a cloak-and-dagger side of Mantica? Are there secret societies, cults, and mystic orders? Minor but flavorful factions that aren't big enough to field their own armies? Are there unique environments that don't see play in normal battles - ice shelves with crevasses and avalanches, fortifications atop floating rocks, ruins of lost civilizations surrounded by carnivorous plants? Basically, I think a skirmish game is a great opportunity for flavor-driven gaming that isn't usually available to rank-and-flank massed wargames.

                            The other thing that's really important to me is that Vanguard and regular KoW connect in some way, that success in one gives a tangible but balanced benefit in the other (access to troop types, influence on terrain placement, extra points, a unique magic item, deployment advantage, choice of scenario objective, etc.).

                            If that's the case, I would love for it to be a fast system that can be played in around 45-60 minutes, so it can be a warm-up for a proper game of KoW.
                            This is a good summary of what I would love to see as well. I would add the following:

                            FOG OF WAR... One of the great things skirmish games do well, the hidden movement, bogus and real ambush or other location markers and so on. Scouting, sabotage and skulking should matter.

                            Dungeon or castle crawls. Building to building or tunnel war capabilities or scenarios.

                            Dogfights. No, not throwing mastiffs, cool though they are, but something more like aerial, 3d combat. Gaggles of harpies attacking a hero on a dragon, or similar.

                            Some sort of progression for leader personalities, which could then convert to a character or ability or effect in subsequent mass battles. This overlaps wit some of what you've said.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vincent View Post
                              I'm dying for a decent Mordheimish skirmish game... for my friends that find KoW too daunting (they don't want paint an entire army). I'd like to see warbands stay around 12-15 max, with a not too complicated rule set. When might we see Vanguard hit the tables?
                              Frostgrave is pretty good.

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