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  • #31
    Originally posted by GodHead View Post
    now they're all perfectly happy with the 9th Age
    Do people still play T9A? Apart from a few batreppers still repping, I had assumed the latest iterations of the game pushed significant numbers of gamers away.

    When I feel down about KOW's gamer base, I remind myself that there aren't really many games like this any more. Fantasy rank + flank is KOW, Oldhammer (a friend of mine fired up a 7E league this summer, seems well-attended, for better or worse mostly by power factions (DOC, DE, VC)), T9A (though it's always seemed like an off-brand Oldhammer to me), Rune Wars, that new Song of Ice & Fire game, Conquest ... there are probably more board-game-esque ones like RW that I don't know about. But anyway, it's not a large list, and a lot of them are flops, limited in scope, or nostalgia trips. The vast majority of wargames are round-based skirmish or round-based army-level skirmish, which can be ok and certainly scale well, but aren't really the same. KOW is frankly pretty special (and FWIW I think it has SO much more crunch than AOS, and in a way Oldhammer as well, where the meta was so stagnant at the end of every edition that you could pretty much predict an opponent's army comp based on their faction).

    EDIT: I do agree with you GodHead, it feels like KOW was perfectly positioned to pick up after WHFB's death, but things didn't really take off. If this was Mantic's fault, was that for generally having weak distribution, models that weren't quite up to snuff, maybe relying too heavily on Kickstarter at the time? Like you said, if large events had picked up KOW it would have been a different story. I know I didn't play KOW until about 18 months after WHFB was killed, and spent that time picking up Malifaux and trying to make AOS work pre-GHB.
    Last edited by Boss Salvage; 06-06-2018, 07:14 PM.
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    • #32
      I've been boycotting Greed Workshop since the mid-nineties; there's no competition as far as I'm concerned

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      • #33
        We were active on Eight Edition for Life for a while. Then I just couldn't resist buying the KOW rulebook because it was 50% off, never looked back. Not saying they are the biggest company ever but they have doubled/tripled their original market size. And I like it :-)

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        • #34
          In the US, the masters circuit DID change to KoW from WFB and has been growing pretty steadily. It seems like there are now tournaments nearly every weekend. In fact, the GT scene here is becoming almost too crowded - Mantic is struggling to find a weekend to hold their new Manticon because there are so many other things conflicting with it. I'm even struggling to find a good weekend for my GT (and this is my fifth year of running KoW tournaments (so far I've run 35)).

          We in general are not yet seeing the numbers that WFB used to see, but things are growing here.
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          • #35
            we actually are seeinghte same numbers at our big cons, the most i've seen at a local fantasy tournament was like 20, and that was a whbf 8th ed nationals, early on on 8th.
            Kow frequently gets between 10 and 15 players at an event, far more than whfb used to get here.

            what we need to do is get cape town playing.

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            • #36
              KoW gained popularity in the U.S. but not in continental Europe. This is a problem that was never addressed by Mantic, nor did they try to create a european/international team tournament.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by dimonju View Post
                KoW gained popularity in the U.S. but not in continental Europe. This is a problem that was never addressed by Mantic, nor did they try to create a european/international team tournament.
                Mantic are clearly doubling down in the US at the moment, which is totally understandable given the size of the potential market there, but it is a shame that this hasn't been replicated elsewhere.

                I know that there are early stage talks about running a Europe wide team tournament in Brno in the Czech Republic next year, Hopefully Mantic can throw some support behind that.
                Elliot M

                "There you go again, cheating by using the rules correctly!"

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by TheGrumpyTroll View Post

                  Mantic are clearly doubling down in the US at the moment, which is totally understandable given the size of the potential market there, but it is a shame that this hasn't been replicated elsewhere.

                  I know that there are early stage talks about running a Europe wide team tournament in Brno in the Czech Republic next year, Hopefully Mantic can throw some support behind that.
                  Good luck with that. Mantic has been extremely disappointing so far regarding event support for us, we are in Spain. It seems anything outside UK and USA is not interesting for them.
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                  • #39
                    Other Mantic games are pretty popular in the US, as well. Deadzone and Dreadball, in particular, have a lot of fans. I played my first game of Dreadball at Capital City Clash and had a great time. It's a fun game.

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                    • #40
                      My personal impression:
                      Continental Europe tournament scene depends heavily on the ETC, or better said the ETC players are running the local scenes/tournaments.

                      There are a lot of small groups playing KoW but they are not really connected and most of them are not willing to drive/fly 500+ kilometres for a tournament

                      another point is multi language support
                      For a lot of people it is still vital to have their rules in their native language
                      and while I understand that it might be to expensive to provide printed books for each language in Europe, at least the free rules should be available in the major languages

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                      • #41
                        Its annoying how well 9th survived in europe. I mean, look at this picture I've attached. It can be so frigging ugly in-game
                        I did find however, that the vast majority of people playing it are "former warhammer players" and there is alot (more than before) focus on the ETC as a centre for the game. Which means there are few new players, and a smaller/nonexistant casual environment, the ETC players and people playing team events are pretty much the entire community.
                        Last edited by Frederique; 11-07-2018, 03:05 PM.

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                        • #42
                          BTW, I was there when the ETC had to decide which game to play. It wasnt too bad for KOW (it got one third of the votes, not too shabby).
                          Here are some actual reasons from people I know that did not want to switch to KOW at the ETC:
                          "ugly models" - one guy pointed to the green lady photo in the rulebook and said "come on, we cant play with minis like these"
                          "dwarf throwing mastiffs" made some people roll their eyes ("we cant play this game, its too silly")
                          "too simple" - too few moving parts and things to tinker with was a common sentiment.

                          So yes, if KoW was even more of a carbon copy of warhammer than it is, it might have taken europe wholesale. But of course there was no reason for Mantic to have a game that was THAT similar to warhammer. It made sense to go in a slightly different direction to try and get a market share I guess, even when Warhammer was still alive. (I assume "more streamlined" won over the only option which would have been "even more complicated")

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Frederique View Post
                            a smaller/nonexistant casual environment, the ETC players and people playing team events are pretty much the entire community.
                            I want to reiterate this. 9th Age is looking good because their tournaments are getting pretty big. But they are missing the "grass root" players. Everyone is at the tournament.
                            KoW is doing much better at the grass root level, I believe. Which is good news.

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                            • #44
                              This


                              Originally posted by Frederique View Post
                              BTW, I was there when the ETC had to decide which game to play. It wasnt too bad for KOW (it got one third of the votes, not too shabby).
                              Here are some actual reasons from people I know that did not want to switch to KOW at the ETC:
                              "ugly models" - one guy pointed to the green lady photo in the rulebook and said "come on, we cant play with minis like these"
                              "dwarf throwing mastiffs" made some people roll their eyes ("we cant play this game, its too silly")
                              "too simple" - too few moving parts and things to tinker with was a common sentiment.
                              I am glad that KoW did not made it for ETC back than.
                              Remember 8th Warhammer already lost a lot of people and those left were those who really liked this kind of stuff (magic and warmachines that could kill an army turn 1).
                              Those would have tried to make KoW into another 8th edition Warhammer, taking over all the bad stuff.

                              And this is still the problem with the 9th age, as the guys behind like it that way. They want to have micromanagement and mini games in their game.
                              They want a lawyer proof rulebook a casual gamer will never read etc.

                              I remember that soon after Warhammer was gone a local community switched to KoW and wanted to make a tournament. The had a 200 page rulespack with restriction and changes.

                              At least in some countries, this attitude would have done no good to the game.

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                              • #45
                                Everything said in this thread is very interesting. And I want to draw your attention to the fact that more and more ninth age players begin to quit because of the constant changes in the core rules of their game. Perhaps that Mantic has something to do with that. And NO MANTIC ! Don't make another kickstarter !

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