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  • Originally posted by Swordmaster of Hoeth View Post
    Hi Vil le Môvé ,

    Having said that I would also admit that I am sure I do not use them to their full potential. Yes, I often lose them and not necessary because I planned to but because I made mistakes and I was trying to fix them somehow. But that does not mean they under-perform. It is always about me as a player making good decisions or making mistakes.
    Sorry for the constant responses.

    what I have seen from your reports is that Mobility is essential, you tend to value the ability (and use the ability) to reorganise your lines on the fly and to leave the opponent who had set up a nice situation staring at an open field.

    With that in mind, the horde may suit you better as the square footprint is easier to move, and with nimble (yeah i know its not quite MSU because its a big expensive unit) adds to your mobile shooting and also allows very swift redeployment along with very fast tough flanking ability.



    Comment


    • Originally posted by Swordmaster of Hoeth View Post
      Hi Vil le Môvé ,

      Thank you for your quick reply. Indeed, I understand the better the context of your question and can better address it.

      I have not included War Chariots in the army as shock troops. I like them because they are flexible. Much like Sea Guard, they are not going to win fights on their own. In fact, not a single unit is capable of that in my army, unless it gets the flank/rear and even then often needs assistance of another element of the army.

      You may see Drakon Riders performing such feat simply because as fliers they can get to such position easier and ignore any obstacles such as units and certain terrain in getting to their chosen target. In the last game Palace Guard troops managed to hunt down some Depth Horrors mainly due to their small foot print.

      War Chariots do not have any of these advantages. However, as I mentioned before they are flexible. And it means they can add to the game at different stages and in different ways. They are doing so by shooting. Especially at the start of the game. 8 ranged attacks may not mean much but every point of damage counts. Due to height 3 chariots will also see above elements that infantry or cavalry cannot. That means more flexibility in positioning too. Yes, they may be affected by cover but at the same time they can see what others cannot. It ideally should play the role later in the game where damaged units need only one more point to be forced to take nerve test and have a good chance to be destroyed.

      Long charge range and TC2 also mean they can fight. Again, I don't expect them to win fights on their own. But they can and do hunt for flanks where they can add to the coordinated attack.

      They block line of sight well so I may sometimes use it by charging into the enemy and simply not allowing it to attack other targets. It is not as spectacular as taking down enemy units but it is equally important.

      In general, Chariots add to the versatility and flexibility of the army in the indirect way.

      Having said that I would also admit that I am sure I do not use them to their full potential. Yes, I often lose them and not necessary because I planned to but because I made mistakes and I was trying to fix them somehow. But that does not mean they under-perform. It is always about me as a player making good decisions or making mistakes.

      Cheers!
      Thanks for your very detailled answer !

      I effectively better understand the way Elves are thinking now !

      And I have to admit that I haven't go that far in my reflexions concerning War Chariots.

      Really, thanks for the tips SwordMaster !


      Comment


      • Originally posted by The_Bag View Post

        whoah there, what? where does this come from?

        Trolls, lobbas, spearchukkas, lightning all over, fleabags, mawbeasts...

        Maybe my meta is soft, but hte above have served me well, having only used banechant once ever and finding it pretty surplus to requirements.

        In a tournament list I run 2-3 lobbas,this discourages the 6+ armour units quite nicely, added to that 1 chukka which for 55 pts is a bargain. FOR 5+ I use the lightning and the fleabags, for everything else, there's mastercard.

        But you know, all of them are only Def 4, Me 4. And when you constantly fight Def 5/6 hordes with attacks 3+ and CS or TC, my poor goblins have rather hard time.

        Comment


        • Enakan

          Thank you!

          Well, that is quite a tough question. Indeed, I have played only once against Ratkin so far and I didn't do well. I will see if I can organize a game against them in the near future.

          It seems that they should benefit from updates in CoK2018 due to the fact that unit strength is what is now used in controlling objectives. At the same time they can use regiments of Slaves to do exactly that. Which is very useful because you can still use your stronger units to do some fighting.

          The challenge I had back then and that may still be something to address now is that Ratkin can fight well in double line formation. Even if you inflict enough damage due to shooting and then charge in to rout a few elements, there are more in the second wave. And due to their own shooting there may not be much left to hold that second line in check either.

          However, I was thinking about the possibility of blocking them in return. Especially if slaves are the front line I can use mobile heroes like flying and mounted princes to stop them. Not for long but the heroes are small enough to avoid being charged by more than one unit and defense 5+ may help in keeping them alive. That is to prevent them from reaching their objective.

          I would still try to focus the shooting and create breaks in the line. Even if there is something to fill the gap there is always one less unit to worry about. The key would be to deploy well as in the game against Clint I could shoot at stealthy unit and with cover penalty.

          I am aware these are very vague ideas and I also know that it is not a solid plan yet on how to tackle Ratkin army but I would consider these as potential tools to use.

          The_Bag

          Thank you for the suggestion.

          Vil le Môvé

          Thanks! I am glad that you consider them useful. Hopefully I will be able to improve my game play with the Chariots too!

          Cheers!
          Originally posted by Cornwall
          Swordsmaster could try taking less units

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Swordmaster of Hoeth View Post
            [USER="2331"]

            Vil le Môvé

            Thanks! I am glad that you consider them useful. Hopefully I will be able to improve my game play with the Chariots too!

            Cheers!

            Hi Swordmaster !

            I hope you haven't taken my post as a derogatory remark.

            Keep on your great work !

            Comment


            • I really enjoyed the latest battle report against Jeff's Trident Realms. Like you, I thought you had the game in the bag around T3, when you routed all the Depth Horrors, but his list has so much redundancy and so many fighty heroes, that he still outground you! I am always pleased to see Trident Realms win, because I play them myself, though my lists are not all like Jeff's! Like a lot of KOW armies, there seem to be a lot of viable builds.

              Comment


              • Vil le Môvé

                I haven't so don't worry!

                Edzig

                Thanks! I think the credit should go to the player, however. It is Jeff who designed the list in the first place, with such situations in mind for sure. He didn't position the Horrors to allow me for all these charges, quite the contrary, he tried to avoid it. But it happened and he did great not only adapting to the situation but regaining the upper hand. That is definitely a quality a Master player should posses.

                It was a great lesson for me as well. I knew I had to stay focused, especially after this unexpected success. Unfortunately, I made mistakes instead. I guess I was too excited after all

                Cheers!
                Originally posted by Cornwall
                Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                Comment


                • Hello!

                  Here is the link to the most recent report from the game I played against Jeff and his Trident Realms on Universal Battle 2.

                  Game 94 - Trident Realms - 2018/09/10

                  Many thanks to Jeff for a great game!
                  Originally posted by Cornwall
                  Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                  Comment


                  • Congrats!
                    Can you tell me more about a "weighted flank formation" ?

                    Comment


                    • This is the best use I've seen of this style list. Nicely played, you absolutely pulled the opponent apart and isolated his units, forcing him to change tack on the fly.

                      Comment


                      • Hello and thanks for the comments!

                        Rakkoon

                        Thank you!

                        Weighted flank, refused flank or oblique order formations are terms from the military history to describe the formations of the armies where forces where not uniformly deployed across the battle field. Instead, one of the flanks was stronger than the other in order to create local superiority and break the enemy, sometimes before the remaining units even properly engaged with the foe.

                        Jeff shifted his formation to the left with only a single Depth Horror Eternal on the right, thus placing more "weight" on the left.

                        The_Bag

                        Thank you! It was indeed very satisfying to see it all working where different elements of the army cooperated. If only I could do it every game

                        Cheers!
                        Originally posted by Cornwall
                        Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                        Comment


                        • I think the cavalry charge used as a blocking/delaying tactic allowed you to position your drakes nicely, and allowed you to shif your backline to your advantage

                          Comment


                          • The_Bag

                            It contributed for sure!

                            In general, my own impression is that there were a lot of small factors that made it all possible. For example, in the same turn, in addition to the heavy cavalry charge it was also the fact that Drakon Lord could distract Depth Horror Eternal, the mounted Prince covered the flank of the Drakons and the other unit did not get wavered when I took the risk to land behind enemy lines unsupported.


                            Originally posted by Cornwall
                            Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                            Comment


                            • I think it defined the tone of the rest of the battle, (opinion only) that particular move forced your opponent into dealing with an issue he was not planning on dealing with at that point and therefore it disrupted his plans beautifully. Like I said before, it was very well played.

                              Comment


                              • The_Bag

                                I do agree! It was a good exchange and it did buy me both time and space. I wanted to add that this charge and slow down of the enemy would have been for nothing if the Drakons were not further protected. After all, as you noted, their freedom of movement made my opponents to change his plan of fast advance towards my other units.

                                Now I need to learn how to do it every game
                                Originally posted by Cornwall
                                Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                                Comment

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