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Anyone else feels that the NS are a little underpowered?

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  • Anyone else feels that the NS are a little underpowered?

    Me and our group have played KoW since first edition, and even play through betas. We play a variety of armies, though my personal favourite are the Abyssals.

    Yet with NS I get trashed every time, and really badly. And this does not happen just to me. Keep in mind that we are veterans that played hundreds of games.

    The general consensus is that the units are too expensive and everyone is mostly low on defense. Mindthirst is situational. Stealth has definitely been boosted in CoK2018, but again, it can be situational. Doppelgangers are a one-time trick and easily fed a cheaper unit.

    We can see that they can have some different builds, such as one having a lot of shambling units, and another with monsters (shooting or combat).

    What was your success rate? What builds or strategy do you use?
    Last edited by dimonju; 08-06-2018, 09:20 AM.

  • #2
    I've started playing them lately and am 3-1 at the moment. Admittedly that's been helped I think by some unfamiliarity on the part of the opposition, which I think is part of the issue. I'm not sure we've seen enough of nightstalkers to work out how effective they can be.

    Mostly they're low defence / highish nerve units. This is actually quite good against elite units with smaller numbers of attacks, less so against mobs. They do, as an army, have quite a few good options for dealing damage / supporting units.

    The thing to remember with mindthirst is that it is instead of having to worry about inspiring. I find most of the time you're within 12" of a character mid-game, admittedly that is in your opponent's controland maybe against a canny player you find yourself short inspiring at critical moments. Doppelgangers can be a huge counter to any strong unit, they do force an opponent to deal with them. I've had generally good results, although there was one game a ranger captain decided to mess them about

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    • #3
      I think they are hard to face at first, but once you learn their "tricks" they come apart really easy. Their 3 point "window" of wavering is a debilitating flaw in the army as a whole. I am considering trying out some of the fearless unit they have, with and without surge as a backup, to see if that might be a solution. Just need to find good models to use as Butchers.

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      • #4
        I've had sometmes a similar feeling. However, we have a large list and I think we are able to field different play styles. For example, I was also worried about the generalized low defense. Switching from list to list I am currently having some success with a core army of 2 Butcher Hordes (Def 5+) backed by 2 Planar Apparitions. The apparitions have Heal 7 and a surprisingly good resiliance thanks to ensnare and regeneration once the enemy gets our flanks. Healing Def 5+ wounds has more value than 4+ or 3+ wounds. This core solves a little bit the low def issue and deals also a decent damage. The rest of the army supports it. I like for example the help of two Void Lurkers.

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        • #5
          They have dominated in some areas. I think it was Australia they were dominating for awhile. In the US they had a monster run in the south followed up by finishing 2nd in battle at the US Masters (last year, not this year).

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          • #6
            I like them, but I find they are costly in points - I always want more in my armies than I have points for! I have won a few and lost a few.

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            • #7
              My greatest defeats were all with NS. I like the 2 butchers with 2 healing monsters.

              Anyone else can share some lists or specific units that worked for you?

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              • #8
                I am not a Nightstalker main player but I am more or less worried about the opinion of rest of players about their army list (yeah, I'm hooked on forums, but we'll deal with that later XDDDD). I Have thought about a possible solution:

                Making stealth a voluntary upgrade (like Ghekkotah hunters). Thoughts?

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                • #9
                  By looking at the entry I agree they seems to be costly. The sthealthy rule may be overcosted in the current meta were heavy melee hitters are kings.

                  Additionally, I feel it's weird their ghost nature only protect them at range. However giving them ensnare would make them very hard to kill!

                  Maybe something like :

                  shade(n) -> when rolling to hit the unit, attackers have to re roll successes. No more than n reroll could be forced by the shade rule.

                  Would allow to always benefit of a paid rule dedicated to increase resilience while not being too strong. This would also allow to define some immaterial levels with 2/3 differents n values among the night stalker entries.

                  ( whitout doubt, this is probably just another custom broken rule )
                  Almost Daily Baldy Worded Hobby Progress.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AVL View Post
                    shade(n) -> when rolling to hit the unit, attackers have to re roll successes. No more than n reroll could be forced by the shade rule.
                    Or a reverse Elite rule - re-roll 6's to hit.

                    But like you, I am not for making up rules - I know I have no expertise in that area.

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                    • #11
                      Iíve only played 1000 point armies with the NS and I very rarely win with them. Especially when compared to my Twilight Kin list which wins me much more often. I just think the NS need a cheap hero (worth about 50pts) and a cheaper regular foot unit (worth about 120pts for a reg) cuz I always seem to struggle with what I can fit into my lists

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                      • #12
                        Everybody seem to agree that building a nighstalker list is a real nightmare... which perfectly fit the army !
                        Almost Daily Baldy Worded Hobby Progress.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Peter Cooper View Post
                          Or a reverse Elite rule - re-roll 6's to hit.

                          But like you, I am not for making up rules - I know I have no expertise in that area.
                          I like that idea, but i think reverse vicious will be better than reverse elite because 5+ shotting now is nearly garbage and it doesn't need a direct counter.

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                          • #14
                            They already have stealthy which is a direct counter to 5+ range attack tough.
                            Almost Daily Baldy Worded Hobby Progress.

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