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  • #16
    Originally posted by MiSiO View Post

    Hordes for unlocks. And a 185 point horde is a SMALL one too. 5 regiments of Thuul sounds great too! I would say painting them would kill me

    How did You find swarms?
    5 regiments of Thuul are really very useful and form a surprisingly tough spine to the army with their Stealth and Ensnare.

    It's taken (and it still taking) a bit of getting used to, as it must do with any MSU army, but you will lose units, despite their resilience. I've added in the Healing charm to help protect them from chip-away damage a wee bit so they are more likely to weather the initial charge, but sometimes they will get done over in one round (Pathfinder Fallen to the face can hurt).

    And keeping that first line intact is where Tidal Swarm can come in. Despite being only Sp5, the Nimble on them means that they can shelter behind the stealthy Thuul and then leap forward like chaff to break up any potential double charges.
    But they are also sufficiently competent in melee to make no one want to take a flank charge as Swordmaster of Hoeth says, because even hitting on 5s, 30 attacks can put some hurt on something.

    I'm even tempted to try a horde of Swarm for a straight up 30 attacks, but also because it opens up potential Nimble corkscrew charges that regiments can't make due to their base size.

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    • #17
      Oh I have already painted swarm horde. +10 points more than troop of thuul and less SP but Nimble. No stealthy but -/15 vs 10/12. I really want to use more of them.This is what I would LOVE to build around and give it a try. Them on a flank... 20 hits! Hits. They are not a great chaff due to their depth (horde). Horde should play a different role.

      I was also thinking about more thuul regiments. Thing is I can not stand painting 2+ same units at once so I add different units. But I will get there.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MiSiO View Post
        Oh I have already painted swarm horde. +10 points more than troop of thuul and less SP but Nimble. No stealthy but -/15 vs 10/12. I really want to use more of them.This is what I would LOVE to build around and give it a try. Them on a flank... 20 hits! Hits. They are not a great chaff due to their depth (horde). Horde should play a different role.

        I was also thinking about more thuul regiments. Thing is I can not stand painting 2+ same units at once so I add different units. But I will get there.
        I had come up with the idea of a frontline of three or four Tidal Swarm Hordes. When you roll that many dice, you often find a lot of crazy results come up! Once your opponent finally chews through them, you hit them with something hard hitting or you surge Water Elementals into their flanks whilst they're stuck.

        Seems like a fun idea to try one day...

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        • #19
          My biggest issue with TS regs and hordes in an MSU is that they aren't doing real work for you, and often they just get in the way of the second (and third) line of units. In my list, I think once you've got more than 3 regs they are more likely to get in the way and prevent a critical charge (just due to not enough available facing on the charge target).

          If you're going MSU, I would stick to TS regs. The horde and the regiment do such different things in the list, as the horde, while having better nerve, is less efficient at being a front-line chaff and cover-provider and instead makes for an amazing objective holder.

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          • #20
            Oh sure. As I wrote. Horde is not chaff. I imagine it ona flank of a unit as a flank charge option if something charges my Main Line.

            Back to regiments. Screens for DH and units to score? Other cool options?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by TarcMaylor View Post
              My biggest issue with TS regs and hordes in an MSU is that they aren't doing real work for you, and often they just get in the way of the second (and third) line of units. In my list, I think once you've got more than 3 regs they are more likely to get in the way and prevent a critical charge (just due to not enough available facing on the charge target).

              If you're going MSU, I would stick to TS regs. The horde and the regiment do such different things in the list, as the horde, while having better nerve, is less efficient at being a front-line chaff and cover-provider and instead makes for an amazing objective holder.
              Well. I think 2 regiments. 3 seems a bit much as 2 are enough to screen or flank a slower opponent.

              I still stick to semi MSU. wierd concept but i feel like at the moment 2 or 3 bigger units and a ton of smaller suit me better. I need more test games as now I only update my list after tournaments.

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              • #22
                I'd love to see an item that bumps a unit's inherent Inspiring up to Very Inspiring. I hate the spikiness of results that comes with being out of inspiring range with small units that can be unexpectedly popped with a single lucky round, and I find maintaining inspiring cover difficult in an MSU list - true for most armies, but especially TR where we have Sp5 and no mount option on our BSB to get them round the table as critical locations change.

                I'd pay 15-20pts to give a single envoy a 9" bubble by way of an apology for making them slog around on foot while kraken, water elementals, coral giants and tidal surge thuul are all charging around at Sp 7, with a bunch of Sp6 units also in the list. Less of a problem for the thuul I guess as the mythican's pretty cheap, useful and inspiring to them, but it does shape your deployment if you want to keep them all in reach, and I don't find I have a problem in smaller lists with options like the centurions.

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                • #23
                  Yeah, Inspiring in MSU is an interesting one and especially for TR. You are trying to fan out and get flanks, but it can make covering everything tricky. But then how much should you care about covering ever unit with Inspiring?

                  I'm slowly coming around to the fact that MSU is actually all about expecting to lose units and planning accordingly. So with that in mind, should it matter that you lose a unit because they're not Inspired, if you've got all your countercharges and flanks sorted?

                  Also with so many of the Neritican Heroes having conditional Inspiring, it makes for some interesting choices that also effect your unit choices (or should that be the other way around?)

                  I'm currently going for a mix of both, with 2 Mythicans, an Envoy and Eckter, but then I'm running a lot of Thuul so it works for me.

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                  • #24
                    For what it's worth, I don't usually have great issues with inspiring with my two Envoys. One has the Griffin Banner and just runs every turn, and the other with the Lute is usually running turn 1 and then hoofing it behind everything else and bane chanting stuff. It's only when I throw Thuul crazy far ahead that they aren't (usually) inspired unless the flying Mythican can also go out that direction too.

                    My mentality is definitely to not get worried when you lose one or two units, but to also make losing those units as difficult as possible. For example, if you need an 8 to route (not hard to deal 4 wounds against a troop) the odds that the troop will be routed if they're inspired drop from ~42% to ~17%. I agree that if your plan is only to face-tank front charges from knight hordes that inspiring won't matter for anything, but I find that the inspiring helps you get there between turns 1-2 UNLESS you're facing a strong gunline. But even then, the points spent on those two Envoys would be, at best, another troop of RG or something, and... well, I'd rather have the inspiring, personally.

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                    • #25
                      Small nerve units should benefit more not from another inspiring but from Rallying. 10/12 into 12/14 or - /15 to - /17 is more significant than being inspired. Dedicated attacks will take a troop either Way but small damage will bounce of a buffed units.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MiSiO View Post
                        Small nerve units should benefit more not from another inspiring but from Rallying. 10/12 into 12/14 or - /15 to - /17 is more significant than being inspired. Dedicated attacks will take a troop either Way but small damage will bounce of a buffed units.
                        I've not run Aura of Heroism yet. I'm just not entirely sure about it and can't quite put my finger on why...

                        I think it's partly the uncertainty about how much I might boost my units Nerve (anywhere between 0 and 2) meaning in my head it makes it slightly more difficult to plan.

                        Plus it runs out and needs refreshing each turn otherwise you lose that Rallying boost. This means my Thuul Mythican is going to be casting Aura when it might need to be casting Bane Chant (and adding Myrddins Amulet means it costs the same points and takes up an artifact slot which could be the Banner of the Griffin).

                        So anyone had much joy with running Aura of Heroism yet?

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                        • #27
                          I know many have used it to good effect, but I'm right there with you with not preferring it. It comes down to a question of do you want to actively have rally, maybe up to rally(2), or do you want to passively just have rally(1)? For me, I'd rather just have the passive and still be able to do other things with my combat action, especially on a Mythican who can reach out and punch someone.

                          That is not saying that I believe those who take AoH are *wrong* in anyway, it just... isn't for me.

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                          • #28
                            Best Way is to run both. Especially around kraken and naiads. Krakens going 1vs1 against anyhing, with nerve of 19/21 are... Well... Useful.

                            Aura helps me the most on my Way to combat. When in combat ensnare kicks in and I switch to BC.

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                            • #29
                              What does M.S.U. stand for, please?

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                              • #30
                                Multiple Small Units

                                As it suggests it's not spending big points on a few big killer units, but is rather a larger collection of smaller, cheaper and more disposable ones that work in conjunction with each other to outmanoeuvre and overwhelm the enemy.

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