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  • Trident MSU principles

    More players try to play MSU style. I was thinking that it would be good to start a separate topic about this list Type.

    I would like to start with asking more experienced players about MSU list building principles. What rules You guys follow building a MSU list?

  • #2
    With the Placos being back to being turd tier, you have to accept that the middle of the table will never be yours, unless you are just dominating the game.

    Secondly, you have to be prepared to lose any unit at any time without remorse or regret.

    If you can accept those two things, Trident is probably the king of MSU armies (RG Troops, Knuckers, Coral Giants, cheap unlocks with solid Depth Horror Hordes), second maybe only to Night Stalkers. But you need to get really good at setting up traps and moving around the board.

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    • #3
      So... How many drops in a 2300 and 2000 lists? I know no Way for an exact number but for example a regular list is 11-13 drops. My 2300MSU has 16.

      Another thing I would like to ask are specific heros like Siren. I understand that a very disposible army does not need a full inspiring coverage. I also think that nerve buff is Way more impotant. For example a swarm horde should take roughly 7 wounds from a cav regiment. +1/+2 nerve should increase its survability by a ton. So envoys or thuul Mithican with giffin banner and aura of Heroism sounds like easiest choice. I Wonder how Siren's Call is interesting with So many nimble units and possible flank charges at a disposal?

      WHAT about CS departament? One or two BC and CS from DH/knuckers/krakens seems enough for me. What is Your experience?

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      • #4
        I think my last MSU Trident army had 14-16 drops? That was around 2250 I think? I would have to dig up the list, but it had 2 Depth Horror Hordes and 2 Coral Giants for my harder units, I had 8 RG troops and a RG captain zipping about, along with a winged Centurian, if I recall. I might have had another unit in there to unlock a Knucker, too. I did run the Griff Banner on the RG captain, who sat in the middle of a pack of the troops, which actually worked better than I thought it might.

        As for CS, I have found that Trident can generate a LOT of CS1 attacks and a lot of vicious thrown attacks, which has always seemed to get the job done. The Coral Giants are in there for specific instances when a little more umph is needed. When I lose with MSU its for three reasons: Massed Breath Weapons, Heal Spamming, or sufficient attacks to make Ensnare meaningless. I have never felt an absence of CS in the army. If you are playing MSU correctly, you should constantly be putting the opponent in positions where they have to expose flanks to units, especially RG troops who can hop over each other, which more than offsets the entire army being mostly CS1.

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        • #5
          My latest attempt to make 2000 MSU list looks like this. I need a list to paint what I need for that list.

          3x hordes of Depth Horrors, 1x Maccwar’s Potion of the Caterpillar, 1x Fire-oil

          2x troop of Thuul
          1x regiment of Thuul

          3x troops f Riverguard with CS1

          1x Kraken
          1x Knucker

          1x Thuul Mythican with Wings of Honeymaze
          1x Thuul Mythican with BC
          1x Naiad Envoy with Griffin Banner

          Thuul Tidal Scourge[1]

          14 drops. What I dislike is my hero choice. I was playing with 1 source of inspiring and one flying hero recently (2k-ish points) and it is sometimes very painful. I would also like to use swarms...

          Comment


          • #6

            Originally posted by MiSiO View Post
            My latest attempt to make 2000 MSU list looks like this. I need a list to paint what I need for that list.

            3x troops f Riverguard with CS1

            1x Thuul Mythican with Wings of Honeymaze
            1x Thuul Mythican with BC
            1x Naiad Envoy with Griffin Banner

            14 drops. What I dislike is my hero choice. I was playing with 1 source of inspiring and one flying hero recently (2k-ish points) and it is sometimes very painful. I would also like to use swarms...
            How about replacing the Thull Mythican with Wings of Honeymaze with the Riverguard Captain? Both are 115 points and the RG Captain has one less attack but does have Vicious and is a bit more survivable with De 5+ and Ne 11/13. The TM with BC will probably be close enough to the Thulls to Inspire them while the 3x Riverguard Troops would benefit from the RG Captain's Inspire. Dropping from Sp 10 to 6 could be mitigated by RG Captain having Pathfinder.

            I might be biased because I like the modifications I made to my RG Captain and just look for excuses to get him in the battle
            2017: Bought a big school of TR Fishpeople, still busy glueing fins and tridents.

            Comment


            • #7
              It would work but it forces 2 separate groups of units. Thuul and RG. I was using 1 RG troop so far and it was always supporting thuul. So Mythican+Captain might not work that well together... Hmm... In general 1 universal inspiring and one "themed" should work. I usually set up RG behind thull. They are a bit slower anf RG can jump from behind in most cases too.

              Flying mythican is also a machine hunter. SP of 22" makes him very flexible.

              Captain - I do not get why on earth he does not have something to shoot with... Like a normal RG have.

              Comment


              • #8
                Looks similar to my current 2000 point list:

                Thuul troop x2
                Thuul reg x1 w/haste
                River Guard troop x2 w/CS1
                Tidal Swarm reg x4
                Depth Horror horde x3
                Kraken
                Envoy x2 w/Lute w/Griffin Banner
                Thuul Mythian w/Wings
                [Thuul Tidal Scourge formation]


                I could probably drop one of the TS regs if I'm honest, as they really do tend to get in the way by turn 4ish, but I don't really know what would easily use those points. Actually, probably dropping the one TS reg (75pts), the haste item (=90pts), and then swapping the Kraken for a Coral Giant (=120pts) and then getting a third RG troop? That seems like the cleanest reallocation of points.

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                • #9
                  Depends if You really want 16 drops. With 15 You can get one TS in a horde and a troop of riverguard.

                  I am also not very happy with no Haste on Thuul regiment... I will try to find points for it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok. Latest thoughts about MSU. Heroes. Also as cheap as possible? My 3 favorite heros So far are Siren, flying thuul and BC/aura Thuul. They all are not the cheapest characters but really replacing them with envoys with Banner/Lute does not Save a lot of points. Maby for a Regiment of TS. Which is not really that amazing.

                    I feel like having a flying hero (thuul, centurion or defender) or having a Siren is a must really. To deal with flyers or machines.

                    Envoys on the other hand are as cheap as possible and with Pathfinder and ensnare can be nasty blocker when places in a terrain. Regen 4+ should also help.
                    Last edited by MiSiO; 21-06-2018, 06:14 PM.

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                    • #11
                      So I'm just getting to grips with TR in a sort of MSU-style (so... much... thuul.... ) and whilst the bulk of my list has been locked down (in the sense that I've actually painted the blighters up and so want to use them!), it's my heroes that I've been tinkering with, trying to find what works.

                      In a bid to find something with a some sort of range damage that can mess with my opponent I gave Eckter a run out yesterday, and I have to say I really liked him.

                      I'm increasingly becoming a real fan of Windblast and so Krakenmaw giving a damage-dealing Windblast is really great. But he also doubles up as a nasty roadblock (De6, Ensnare, Phalanx) especially in terrain and can hit pretty hard himself (6 Attacks on 3+ CS2)

                      Sure he's a bit pricey at 160pts but he might well become a regular feature for the time being.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello,

                        I have just discovered the topic and I think I can contribute a bit. But first, how is that MSU army with 3 Hordes? "S" should stand for Small I think.

                        I had a great pleasure to play against current Australian Master who is currently developing his Trident Realm army. You may check his two versions in the following battle reports:

                        https://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot....-20180527.html

                        https://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot....-20180614.html

                        We have played another game recently and he moved further towards MSU style. His army had 5 regiments of Thuul, 3 regiments of Horrors, 2 Wyrmrider Centurions, 2 Eternals and 3 Thuul Mythicans.




                        Originally posted by Cornwall
                        Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I thought Swordmaster of Hoeth might be along soon!

                          Actually it's your reports of those MSU Trident Realm lists that got me thinking on it and yes, I have shamelessly 'borrowed' your opponents list as the basis for mine!
                          Really interesting to see where he's going with his list too, so I'm now looking forward to your next report even more than usual!

                          Played my first non-UB game with it yesterday and got a win against some shooty Twilight Kin, so I was rather pleased with that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Swordmaster of Hoeth View Post
                            Hello,

                            I have just discovered the topic and I think I can contribute a bit. But first, how is that MSU army with 3 Hordes? "S" should stand for Small I think.

                            I had a great pleasure to play against current Australian Master who is currently developing his Trident Realm army. You may check his two versions in the following battle reports:

                            https://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot....-20180527.html

                            https://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot....-20180614.html

                            We have played another game recently and he moved further towards MSU style. His army had 5 regiments of Thuul, 3 regiments of Horrors, 2 Wyrmrider Centurions, 2 Eternals and 3 Thuul Mythicans.
                            Hordes for unlocks. And a 185 point horde is a SMALL one too. 5 regiments of Thuul sounds great too! I would say painting them would kill me

                            How did You find swarms?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              laribold

                              Congratulations on the victory! I will need to post a few other reports first but the one from our most recent game should be ready soon enough too. I will let you know when it is posted

                              MiSiO

                              I find Swarms very annoying. They may not die as easy as one expects, cannot be wavered and are quite maneuverable. They also cannot be ignored as if you let them charge your flank then it may not be a nice experience.
                              Originally posted by Cornwall
                              Swordsmaster could try taking less units

                              Comment

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