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Cavalry Options

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  • Cavalry Options

    Abyssals have three different options for Cavalry- Hellhounds, Horsemen and Tortured Souls.
    Hellhounds have tools for attacking flanks, with their nimble, and lower cost. They are very different from the other two options.

    Horsemen and Tortured souls both seem to fill the same role, though. Horsemen have a point more armour, but lower nerve and no lifeleech.
    They also hit more often, and don't have Shambling (primarily a negative since we don't have Surge in-faction).

    What are your thoughts on these units? Do you take Horsemen over Tortured Souls, are Hellhounds worthwhile?

  • #2
    None or all can fit in a list, so in part it's down to how you build your list. As a general rule though, regiments of knights are very good, troops of them are not. Regiments of tortured souls are outstanding, whereas hordes of them are just ok. And hellhounds can be wonderful but are very finesse and take patience and skill to use and as such you don't see them often.


    • #3
      In my personal lists, I used to take 1-3 troops of hellhounds but they haven't been making my lists lately. Not because they aren't good enough though, simply I have shifted my builds a bit.

      I occaisionally run a regiment of horsemen, but more often do not. I may shift back to them though. I always have 1, and almost always 2 regiments of tortured souls. Hordes just aren't good enough.


      • #4
        Hi !

        Could you tell us Thorgrim why hordes of tortured souls aren't the way to go ? Aren't they a good counter vs hordes of Elohis for example ? I know that shambling without surge isn't great but It could help sometimes.


        • #5
          Point for point, regiments of Tortured Souls are one of, if not the best units in the game - even after the slight CoK18 nerf.

          I'll let Thorgrim give his own reasons why he thinks hordes aren't as good, but I completely agree with him. Its not that they're bad, its just that for the extra cost between the horde and the regiment, you don't gain the same benefits that you would for say the different between hordes and regiments of Elohi.

          The horde and regiments have very different roles.

          The regiments of Tortured Souls are harassment units - they provide threat projections and board control but will not likely win many head on fights on their own. However your opponent can't ignore having a regiment in their flank etc so they change how your opponent plays and forces them to react to you. Being on a smaller base than the horde, they're also excellent at fitting in tight gaps and finding space to charge flanks and individuals that your opponent might not have seen.

          Where as a horde is better suited as more of a hammer unit - and at Me4+ and Def4, they're not the best hammers out there.
          While the horde could still be used to harass flanks and threaten back field targets, you're effectively paying 75 points more for a units that does the same thing.

          A regiment of Tortured Souls (TS) and a troop of Gargoyles only costs 5 more points than a horde of TS. I'd always rather have the two control units then the horde.

          Also, a big misunderstanding that a lot of players have is that shambling in an army without surge is a downside. If Abyssals had access to surge, the Tortured Souls would cost ALOT more points. In the same way that yellow bellied has a negative points cost on goblins, shambling keeps the TS cheap.

          A good example of this is the Air Elementals in the Forces of Nature list where they do have access to surge-

          Air Elementals vs Tortured Souls

          150 points vs 145 points
          Me4+ vs Me4+
          Def 5 vs Def 4
          Ne 14 vs Ne 15

          No CS or TS vs CS2
          Pathfinder vs Lifeleech (2) (+technically fury)

          So for 5 points less, you gain two points of Crushing Strength (or in CoK18 CS1/TC1) and arguably better special rules.
          If you were paying for that as an upgrade (2x brew of strength), that would equate to 60 points worth of upgrades. I know that artefacts are purposefully over costed, but it gives you an idea of the discount you get for shambling without surge.

          I'd guess that if there was a source of surge in the Abyssal list, TS would rise to somewhere around the 170-190 for a regiment and 250-70 for a horde.
          Last edited by TheGrumpyTroll; 28-08-2018, 12:46 PM.
          Elliot M

          "There you go again, cheating by using the rules correctly!"


          • #6
            Very interesting the not so grumpy troll.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Vil le Môvé View Post
              Hi !

              Could you tell us Thorgrim why hordes of tortured souls aren't the way to go ? Aren't they a good counter vs hordes of Elohis for example ? I know that shambling without surge isn't great but It could help sometimes.
              Hitting on 4's (and especially now with CS1 TC1), they aren't a real hammer. Between terrain and ensnare, there is such a chance/likelihood of hitting on 5's in charges, and even on 4's, you just aren't doling out that much damage/wounds. With the larger footprint there are lots of places they won't fit that a regiment would have been able to. And with their cost you really don't want to just throw them away either.

              On the flip side, at 145 for a regiment, they can easily fit in tight flanks that hordes could never make it to, they have enough nerve and regen to hold up units if you need to throw them out there to wall something off, and they will survive longer than expected in that grind many times. At only 145 you are less worried about throwing them out as chaff if needed. With fly/nimble they have threat projection, and in a flank will still dole out decent damage (especially relative to point cost). They just are sort of an amazing jack-of-all-trades unit that can fill many roles that help the army function at top notch.


              • #8
                Helpful stuff in here. Willh ave to try out the regiments now.

                On a related note, since hordes aren't great, how do people find the "twisted victims" special horde?