No announcement yet.

A Dungeon Saga Proposition...

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I know I don't speak for anyone other than myself, but this is a terrible idea. I am 100% not interested in my board games being tied to or relying on a website or an app. I don't want to see them become obsolete because the producer of the software either decided he didn't want to pay for domain hosting anymore, got bored maintaining it, or the hardware the software runs on becomes obsolete and the company sees no value in updating it to run on a new platform.

    I play board games to get away from the computer and be social with my friends. I certainly don't want to be dragging a screen to the game table in order to enjoy my games. I'd rather see them invest resources into fixing the game as it is rather than building some online experience.
    Last edited by Zethnar; 27-10-2017, 01:40 PM.


    • #17
      Cheers for the feedback Zethnar

      I am particularly conscious of your point of view and it has been carefully (or so I think) considered in how I wanted to develop the website. In direct reply to some of your points:

      1) What I propose is a digital supplement and/or aid to the physical game as it currently stands and any physical products yet to come. It is connected to the game but the physical board game is neither tied to nor reliant on the content on the website. I do not want a level of interaction between physical and digital that would impact the ability to play the physical game if the digital content was unavailable. The physical game is the primary product and anythign digital is only offered to enhance its gameplay through additional options or additional reasons to want to take it off your shelf and play it.

      2) As it is proposed as a website (that is currently provided with free hosting) the concerns/risk for the content to become obsolete due to domain hosting not being paid don't apply. Additionally, as it is a website and not an application that is dependant on hardware or software requirements from the user end (beyond being able to connect to the internet and run a browser), these also are minimal/negligible concerns. This is for the very reasons you state - I don't want to exclude any player due to them not having particularly recent or popular hardware devices or software versions.
      Similar concerns regarding producers becoming bored or not seeing the value in updating the product can also be applied to any game that is purely a physical product - you might have said the the same for Mordheim, why get involved in a game that might no longer be produced or supported in X number of years etc

      I specifically included the point that I plan for most, if not all, content to be available in printable format, so that it can exist in physical form for those players who do not want to have to use a digital device at the tabletop. For me, this is an essential facet of the design.

      3) A computer is not required to use this digital offering and it is not mutually exclusive from being social or being used with friends. What is proposed is not a single-player video game that excludes other players and must be played in a darkened room.... what gives you that impression? The very existence of some digital devices in this modern day are designed for the very purpose of being social (mobile phones, social media apps etc) so the inference that digital content is disconnected from social experiences and friends does not really carry any weight for me I'm afraid.

      4) A screen does not need to be dragged to a game table in order to enjoy the game, either as it stands or with what I am proposing. This proposal does not change the current game as it exists, if you enjoy it today then this will not change that enjoyment. As the platform can be accessed via a mobile or tablet device, many of which are lighter then some game rulebooks and certainly lighter then a game box full of contents, can I ask if you also avoid dragging that sort of content to the game table?
      Nothing needs to be dragged anywhere, unless you were to print that content out and then it will weigh much the same as any other game booklet content.

      5) By releasing content in digital format, it would allow game-fixing content to be issued quicker to players that could then be followed up with a physical release as and when time and costs allow - would that not be beneficial? How do you currently access game fixing content such as FAQ's and Errata?

      I do appreciate the reluctance to not want digital and physical products to interact - the concern of inter-dependance between the two facets is a real one, but one that I have thought about and been part of much of my design.

      The game MUST remain an analogue experience, I want it to be a tabletop game and have no desire to alter that. I simply want to offer players additional options, reasons & content to continue to bring their physical game and miniatures to the tabletop with increased frequency regardless of the amount of time they have to spare or the number of players that have available when that time to spare is free.

      Should somebody interested in the game but who, for whatever multitude of reasons, doesn't have a pool of players/doesn't have spare time/is in interested digital content/wants to play the game in shorter bursts etc etc not be offered a chance to maximize the game they own and their chances/reasons to play it?

      I am coming from the perspective that ALL players should be given every chance and opportunity to get this great game on the table, regardless of their situation, rather then only being available to a narrow set of gaming preferences or personal limitations.

      Cheers for the feedback.

      P.S: In case it's not already known, I am on the Rules Committee for Dungeon Saga and have invested many hours of my own personal resources (time & knowledge) into fixing parts of this game already. I don't propose to undo anything that I have already committed time to achieve.

      Last edited by ezeqiel; 30-10-2017, 12:25 AM.


      • #18
        Sorry for the late reply, I don't check back in here very often.

        I wanted to address a couple of things you either seem to have misread or misinterpreted in my post.

        To begin with if you are proposing hosting such a website on a 'free' service you are going to very quickly find that it is unsuitable either due to bandwidth, storage, or hardware limitations imposed by your free host. Your options really are going to be for Mantic to pay someone for hosting the data, or for Mantic to host it on their own hardware. Both propositions lead to a situation where at some point a cost vs benefit judgement is going to get made and the service will, eventually, be turned off. Whether this is because the cost of having it hosted becomes too much, or that some piece of hardware vital to the hosting of the website wears out and the cost of replacing it is deemed to be not worth the benefit gained from continued hosting of the content.

        I wasn't concerned about users devices, I'm well aware of the fact that web content is generally system agnostic. I'm concerned with the decisions that could be made by a company which may not necessarily be driven by what is best for the customer (like the decision to release the Adventurer's Companion in the state it was in). We've already witnessed GW purge years worth of online content simply because it was no longer profitable for them to continue to host it, I have no reason to believe Mantic wouldn't do the same.

        Additionally, saying that a computer is not necessary to use the digital content is somewhat of a misrepresentation. Your phone or your tablet may not be as powerful as your laptop or desktop (or they may, depending on your laptop or desktop) but both devices are computers. But regardless of what you wish to classify them as, you are going to need some kind of web enabled computing device with some kind of optical output in order to utilize the content you are proposing.

        In that vein, I'm not saying that using a web enabled device at the table makes socializing impossible, but it starts to break down that barrier between using electronic devices during the game and not. Also, equating 'social media' with 'being social' is somewhat of a fallacy. People interacting with social media while in a social situation are, generally, ignoring anyone physically present in order to do so. Regardless of whether you are supposedly 'interacting' with someone (which is debatable depending on what you're doing online) you are being antisocial to do it.

        As for releasing the content in digital format, Mantic already has the ability to easily release content in digital format and it hasn't made them any more eager to do so. I don't think having content hosted on a different website is going to change their lacklustre support of the game.

        However, to expand on my major concern your first post talks a lot about having the website act as some kind of long-term campaign centre. That is the content I specifically would rather be a physical product rather than some kind of interactive experience. You mention in your reply to me that you don't want the game to be tied to the web service, but if you are playing a campaign (which was the primary reason I bought in to Dungeon Saga, and also the reason I was so bitterly disappointed by it) that is exactly how it sounds like you want it to work. I would personally prefer that something I considered a major component of the game isn't tied to a web service that may simply disappear once it's no longer profitable (and its entirely likely that will happen sooner or later).

        But all of that aside, if something like this were to become a reality then Mantic would end up having to invest in it one way or another, unless it remained entirely a fan produced product that they had no involvement in whatsoever. My preference is that if Mantic are going to invest any more effort into Dungeon Saga then they should do it by fixing the physical products they botched in the initial release, not building new digital technologies.
        Last edited by Zethnar; 06-12-2017, 11:47 AM.


        • #19
          I suspect we aren't going to come to any sort of meeting of minds here Zethnar in regards the validity of content like this for gamers/customers. It's not going to be for everyone, that I understand, but my I can only state that my intent would be to make it as system agnostic with personal physical printing possible as much as is technically and gameplay feasible to reduce concerns of online content life expectancy etc.

          That will appeal to some and won't to others, such is the way with any product or service. Appreciate your feedback and thanks for taking the time reply.


          • #20
            Hi all, my first post here

            Any news on this? Looks a very interesting feature