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  • Dungeon Saga Advanced Edition


    Welcome to Dungeon Saga Advanced Edition! The great and powerful Beta!


    But what can you expect from this edition?

    The game is built on Dungeon Saga Adventure Companion book(insert Link), with a complete new set of rules which expands the idea around Dungeon Saga. So what can you expect from this book? Well the new game adds the following:
    • New Classes as in Necromancer, Spellsword and Sorcerer.
    • a few more races.
    • a Complete redesign of leveling.
    • Each class now have a Skill tree.
    • A new spell casting mechanic, so each Hero now have a mana pool to keep an eye out for.
    • A new Song mechanic, so the Bard may combine 2 song parts together to create a song.
    • New Overlord Command cards, with a set to each race he can use.
    • A Initiative system which each model is activated in different turns.
    • New set of Location cards with a new rules for different size of cities.
    • A few new items.
    • New Tokens.
    • and much much more!


    So after about 1 and an about half year of development it is close to be released, but the book is a bit rough around the edges, as a certain lack of pictures, proper page references and a good old time prettifying.



    There is a lot of cards to print, and I will make sure people donít need to print them all out at once, I believe there are about 350-400 cards?



    So really what there is left for me to do is:
    • add a few items to the list.
    • make icons for all items.
    • make a reference sheet for special rules, so it is easier for people to look them up quick.
    • add more pictures to explain different things. (would really like some feedback there ^^)
    • fill out empty chapters (it is more or less only 1 about how to make your own dungeon)
    • Create a FAQ and a Reference sheet for special rules.
    • Listen to feedback, fix errors and make future updates.




    You can download all the cards and the book from my dropbox:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/429nw13j2...LOCoepVNa?dl=0


    So feel free to read it through, look on the pretty cards and make a few suggestions and give me some feedback. I would really appreciate it :3

    Update:
    02-06-2017 "the release"
    - upload most of the pdf.
    05-06-2017 "upload spells and tokens"
    - upload 2 more pdf.
    Last edited by Karnil Vark Khaitan; 05-06-2017, 12:20 PM.

  • #2
    Please Comment if you can read and download the files.

    Comment


    • #3
      I can read them

      There's a lot of new ideas in there - some I like (I like the idea of defense dice being different to combat dice), and some I don't (like more complicated magic). I think rather than presenting it as a complete game, it would be better to describe how the different mechanics can change the base DS. So it would be easy for someone to include the initiative system (say) whilst keeping the old magic system. It would also mean you weren't using copyrighted material.

      You do need a proofreader, but having said that I've not come across anything I didn't understand.

      I'd also like to see way more icons on the spell cards. This is a problem for the standard DS cards too. I think the following should (also) be icons:
      Major/minor
      Tag (type)
      Range
      Use when adjacent
      I'd also like to see the dice icon for magical attacks.

      Some specific things:

      Initiative - When opening a door high initiative models should be allowed to act. It doesn't make sense that models that react slower can act when models that react quickly can't.

      Miscast - It is easier to miscast using 1 Dice than it is with 2. After that it becomes more dangerous to use more power. This seems wrong. I'd say you can't miscast with 1 Dice - or if you do roll a 1, you only suffer a miscast if you roll another 1 on a D6.

      Races - Dark/High/Wood Elves are not Mantica names. Elves in Mantica belong to kins so Dark Elf would be Twilight Kin, Wood Elf would be Sylvan Kin, High Elf might be Western Kin.

      Have you lost the race specific options when leveling up? I quite like the idea of race specific options.

      Armies - I don't think basic soldiers should get mob rule. It's very specifically a zombie thing, since they don't care about each other and aren't waving swords around. And why would a better soldier like a knight lose the ability? Outnumbering is plenty.
      Human soldiers are worse than goblins - that's just not right. In KoW, a goblin is significantly worse at attacking - though equal in defense.

      You vary the number of wounds on human sized models. I think toughness should be reflected in armour (or green rage). And why are elves tougher than humans?

      I do like the levy/commander rule for humans. Humans do need some special ability - and they are known for their generalship in Mantica.

      I see you've renamed the lower abyssal with shield - quite right! Though a lower abyssal in KoW is a better fighter than a goblin and has regenerate. DS abyssals really need a complete rework (but that's not your fault ).

      The character sheets are well designed - much better than the standard DS ones.

      I'm not keen on making magic more complicated - the wizards already have way more options than the other classes.

      I do like the idea of defense and attack being different - it opens up a lot of design space, beserkers who are better at attacking, stalwart troops better at defending. I also like the idea of improving song effects - I'll check that out more carefully.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        I can read them
        Perfect! I rarely use Dropbox ^^

        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        There's a lot of new ideas in there - some I like (I like the idea of defense dice being different to combat dice), and some I don't (like more complicated magic). I think rather than presenting it as a complete game, it would be better to describe how the different mechanics can change the base DS. So it would be easy for someone to include the initiative system (say) whilst keeping the old magic system.
        Hmm that ship sailed a long time ago,but I can properly write a guide in how to skip some of the rules, but there are some items and game mechanics to inter connect with each other. as in summoning creatures and using mana. But my first advice for how players can skip the magic system; Ignore all casting of a spell and any mention of Mana, I believe that would solve most of the issues which may happen.

        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        It would also mean you weren't using copyrighted material.
        Nah I am fine with it, I have already contacted Mantic about it, it would be nice if they would print the cards so players don't need to cut them out themselves.

        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        You do need a proofreader, but having said that I've not come across anything I didn't understand.
        Yeah I know a guy who is willing to do it, but always come up with the worst excuse xP. But I am Happy to hear that the rules are understandable.

        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        I'd also like to see way more icons on the spell cards. This is a problem for the standard DS cards too. I think the following should (also) be icons:
        Major/minor
        Tag (type)
        Range
        Use when adjacent
        I'd also like to see the dice icon for magical attacks.
        Hmm the cards are already kind of small, to add more Icons would make less room for text, But I do think that I maybe can fit in a total of 5 Diamond shapes in the bottom, as in:
        §§
        §§§
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        Some specific things:

        Initiative - When opening a door high initiative models should be allowed to act. It doesn't make sense that models that react slower can act when models that react quickly can't.
        Yes I agree, it is a case I have never thought of, but when I played a Hero I always talked about using this tactic, this should not be the case.
        My solution to the problem is that models reveal later in the Round, will get a lower Initiative for the rest of the Round, just for the Surprise of a Door exploding and Heroes running in.
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        Miscast - It is easier to miscast using 1 Dice than it is with 2. After that it becomes more dangerous to use more power. This seems wrong. I'd say you can't miscast with 1 Dice - or if you do roll a 1, you only suffer a miscast if you roll another 1 on a D6.
        Hmm I agree mathematical the chances for not suffering miscast is by only using 2 Dice for casting a spell. But the hidden gameplay mechanic is also about Mana consumption, and I have also updated most spells today to be hard to only cast with 1 Dice. Which honestly Supports your Argument that A spellcaster can't suffer a miscast on 1 dice.
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        Races - Dark/High/Wood Elves are not Mantica names. Elves in Mantica belong to kins so Dark Elf would be Twilight Kin, Wood Elf would be Sylvan Kin, High Elf might be Western Kin.

        Have you lost the race specific options when leveling up? I quite like the idea of race specific options.
        Uhh thanks I don't know enough about Mantica Lore, so most of the things are based on WOW, Warhammer, Pathfinder and D&D.
        But the removal of Race Specific options, when I designed the Skill trees I also made a Race Tree, so each Race could be different from each other, so both Elves would be one Race to begin with, but as they reach higher level they would become either a Dark elf, High elf and so on. But I showed and talked it over with a few friends, and they raised a few counter argument to the whole idea, as in "A race is who you are borne as you don't develop or evolve into a better species" and "your Idea is more a Culture thing and how do people gain access to it?"
        So I quickly realised the Idea wasn't finished, so I chose to put my whole focus on just the Skill trees.
        I am still playing with the Idea, as it will mean that to character will NEVER be the same, and it is fun to challenge myself with Rule design ^^.
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        Armies - I don't think basic soldiers should get mob rule. It's very specifically a zombie thing, since they don't care about each other and aren't waving swords around. And why would a better soldier like a knight lose the ability? Outnumbering is plenty.
        The Mod rule for the Human kingdoms needs to be rewritten, as it is yes currently a weaker version of the mob rule, I imaged it could be a rule called formation and work a bit different.
        Suggestions are welcome ^^

        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        Human soldiers are worse than goblins - that's just not right. In KoW, a goblin is significantly worse at attacking - though equal in defense.
        Yes the Orcs and goblins was abit a rush job, and I accept that, and it means a total redesign of all Armies, I am open for suggestions there again, as I haven't played a lot of KOW(only 3 times I think?)
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        You vary the number of wounds on human sized models. I think toughness should be reflected in armour (or green rage). And why are elves tougher than humans?
        I am not sure I understand this, can you expand on this please :3
        The Elven army is the elite army so they have to always be better then humans. (it is a Trope and a unwritten rule :3)
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        I do like the levy/commander rule for humans. Humans do need some special ability - and they are known for their generalship in Mantica.
        Thank you ^^
        It is a nice way for the overlord to play a horde army, and for the Heroes to disable his tactic.
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        I see you've renamed the lower abyssal with shield - quite right! Though a lower abyssal in KoW is a better fighter than a goblin and has regenerate. DS abyssals really need a complete rework (but that's not your fault ).
        Yes when I look though the old book I am always surprised to see it.
        But Regeneration for all the Daemons is why to powerful, I gave it to the Conclave originally and place 3 Lesser Daemons, they just would not Die, the Rage in that battle was massive xD.

        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        The character sheets are well designed - much better than the standard DS ones.
        I will report that on to Vuxul, he put it all together with my Icons ^^.
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        I'm not keen on making magic more complicated - the wizards already have way more options than the other classes.
        It is a way to weaken the Class and make a interesting gameplay for them, I imaged that spell casting is just the flick of a finger but something you can mess up and have to balance.
        Originally posted by Fyrax. View Post
        I do like the idea of defense and attack being different - it opens up a lot of design space, beserkers who are better at attacking, stalwart troops better at defending. I also like the idea of improving song effects - I'll check that out more carefully.
        Yes we joked about making a run with 4 slam-maber bezekers, they would never even break a sweat.
        But Yes check out the Song system, it is simple and fun to use it.

        Again Thanks for the Feedback, It has been worth every word in gold :3

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey A small update here.

          With the feedback I have done the following:
          - you can no longer miscast on a 1, if you used a single dice
          - a complete rewriting of races.

          Sorry for the long delay, but updates will be more often from now on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Looking more closely at the fluff, the standard elves are Northern Kindred. The Western Kindred are the Sea Kin (at least in some sources - others say Sea Kin broke away from Western Kin). Sorry about that.

            Halflings should be the same speed as dwarfs. It's been suggested elsewhere they get nimble to compensate. Gladewalkers seem weaker than the dwarfs, losing 1 defense and initiative for earth. Maybe they should have extra mana or defense to balance them.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks ^^
              I did once give Halfling same movement as the dorfs, Halfling are suppose to be agile so they have gain a new trait.
              The Gladewalker has been buffed by having a lot more mana then a dorf, and the dorf have lost some.

              I am currently working on a reference sheet, which currently contains:
              \section{Round Order Overview}
              \section{Actions}
              \section{Traits}
              \section{Abilities}
              \section{Affinity}
              \section{Feats}
              \section{Beastry}

              And here is some goodies ^^

              Comment

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